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Best .45 for concealed carry? (Read 35101 times)
trlhrv
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #15 - Dec 13th, 2010 at 7:37pm
 
I can recommend the Kimber Ultra II for light weight, accuracy, and reliability. If not a 1911 style fan, I'd go with the Kahr P45. I go back and forth since both work in the same holsters and weigh less than 30 oz's loaded. The Kimber has the best trigger out there. On the Kahr there is no safety other than the trigger pull itself.
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Old Zebra
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #16 - Dec 13th, 2010 at 8:31pm
 
David, I would suggest trying 9mm and 45 ACP both in Glocks and 1911s...and in something smaller than a full/standard size pistol.  For the 380ACP, try a Sig P238 and any other 380 auto.  Most 380 autos are of the blow-back design which results in a snappy recoil for some folks.  The P238 is a different kind of design resulting in much less felt recoil.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #17 - Dec 14th, 2010 at 7:21pm
 
Take a look at the Officer's Model of the 1911.  It's a 3.5" barrel and very concealable.  It is tried and true and goes bang every time (kept in good condition, of course) and the MoA is clear and understandable and has been tested by time.  It's 6+1, but if you can't do it in that, carry a 7 or 9-shot revolver.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #18 - Dec 14th, 2010 at 9:04pm
 
IMPO: (I have one too)

I have tried .380, 9, 40, and 45. As stated by Big Mickey, the 45 is more of a push, which in makes shot recovery much easier. I found the 380 and 9 to be painful to shoot, and i just didn't like the 40. Not sure why, it just was not as comfortable to shoot as the 45.

Now, I can appreciate that shot placement is key, but I am not so bold as to believe that when SHTF i will be able to focus, aim, and fire anywhere near as good as i can at the range or even simulation training.  That in mind, i will take every advantage i can, and if that mean toting 42+oz of steel around so that i have a 45 with 8+1 on my side...so be it.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #19 - Dec 23rd, 2010 at 6:54pm
 
I've had good luck carrying both the Para WartHog and/or the Colt Night Defender. Both are easy to conceal, reliable and very accurate; highly recommended.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #20 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am
 
Came across this blog on Yankeegunnuts.  Thought it might be interesting and will surely start a discussion:
Rather lengthy but interesting.  Also covers an opinion of Jeff Cooper.  Read on:
The 1911 Sucks
Posted by GunNutmegger on Dec 20, 2010 in Articles, Featured, Rant | 9 comments

1911
I have said it before and I will end up saying it again: the 1911 an old design that is more trouble than it is worth.  I don’t say it to be confrontational, or to draw attention to myself.  I say it because I see my fellow shooters mindlessly parroting the gun equivalent of Chuck Norris Facts whenever the 1911 comes up in conversation, and I just don’t get it.

I am not surprised that the 1911 is out of place in today’s world, and you shouldn’t be surprised either.  What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

In the comment section of another blog, I summarized my skepticism of the 1911′s attributes thusly:

It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo. And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.

In my original complaint, I forgot to mention the issue with slide-stop failures, and the whole internal extractor/external extractor situation.  Either of which would be serious enough to kill any other design’s reputation in the shooting world.

In response to some knee-jerk defenses of the 1911 from fanboys who drank too much John M. Browning Kool-Aid, who told me how all that I needed to do was buy a bunch of aftermarket parts and send the gun to a gunsmith, I added:

Why does a reliable 1911 cost so much, and need so much gunsmithing?

To be fair, I have some of the same complaints with the Walther PPK.  Which is also a very old design, one which has been eclipsed by more modern designs which can do everything it does better.

I mean, is it unreasonable to expect an affordably-priced pistol for defense to reliably feed hollowpoints out of the box?  What Smith&Wesson pistol of recent manufacture won’t feed hollowpoints?  What about Glock?  SiG?  Beretta?  (I know Kahrs need to have some rounds through them before they are reliable, but it says that right in the owners manual).  The shooting public would not accept an unreliable gun of a more modern design.  But for some reason, the 1911 gets a pass for all of its flaws.  “Just use hardball” is not a valid defense of the 1911 design, nor is it a valid strategy for selecting ammunition to defend yourself.

And God help anyone who buys a used 1911.  Everyone and their brother seems to think they are qualified to take a Dremel to their 1911.  Guys who can’t change their own flat tire somehow have no reservations about playing doctor on their 1911.  Who knows what wacky “custom” parts have been put into the gun because someone read about it on the interweb tubes?

It was the best military sidearm of its day, and for a long time afterward.  I do not dispute that.  But its time has long passed.  And a military sidearm is not the same thing as a handgun for personal defense.

Leave aside the lack of reliability with hollowpoints, and the other problems.  The 1911 is too big to conceal.  And the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel and a tendency to limp-wrist the gun.

Some people protest by saying that the 1911 is the best gun for defense, because the most “realistic” shooting sports are heavily populated with 1911 users.  And everyone knows that you should train like you fight, so that you will fight like you train, right?  Well, that would be a more convincing argument if those “realistic” shooting sports didn’t have intricate rules that somehow disqualify most non-1911 designs.  Purely by coincidence, right?  Sure, they come up with semi-plausible rationales for some of those rules, but there is no way to disguise the overall bias towards the 1911.

I don’t hate 1911 fans.  I merely pity them, because they are victims of marketing hype and groupthink, the lemmings of the gun world.  And if someone sinks thousands of dollars into a 1911 (and isn’t using it to compete for money), well they are just gullible.  Like the kind of people who pay money for tapwater in a bottle.

So what if Jeff Cooper liked the only handgun in use when he was in the military?  It’s not like he had a choice of other handguns to use.  And, on a related note, Jeff Cooper has a reputation that exceeds his accomplishments.  The best information that I can find shows that he spent the battle of Guadalcanal as the training officer on Gen. Vandegrift’s staff.  Not leading a platoon.  Not on the line, pulling a trigger.  And his coy evasions when asked about his real-world experience with gunfighting are revealing, if one cares to view them objectively.  (If you have documentation about Cooper’s real-world experience, please drop me a line.  I am happy to revise my opinion.)  I have no doubt that he was qualified to teach people how to shoot on a range.  Beyond that, a grain of salt is required.  I prefer to get my advice on defense & gunfighting from men who have actually been there & done that; Massad Ayoob, Jim Cirillo, etc.  Am I a qualifications snob?   No, I am an results snob.

Ok, got it out of my system.


Now keep in mind, this is someone else's opinion.  I'm just posting it for what it may be worth and to see the discussion. 
Don't beat up on me too hard.   Wink
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #21 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 1:27am
 
old codger wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am:
Came across this blog on Yankeegunnuts.  Thought it might be interesting and will surely start a discussion...
The 1911 Sucks
Posted by GunNutmegger on Dec 20, 2010 in Articles, Featured, Rant | 9 comments

...What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

Hmmm... Lessee...
Well, there's the Colt Single Action and all of its clones, and the basic S&W revolver design. There's the basic Mauser rifle and all of its clones. And how 'bout that Model 94 Winchester?
That's enough to refute the challenge, but I'm sure that there's more.
(Oh—sorry—I'm wrong. Those designs are much older than a mere 100 years.)

old codger wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am:
...It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. [emphasis added]

Whomever wrote that is ignorant of the design, has never been taught to strip one, and ought to learn before speaking again on the subject.
The M1911 comes completely apart...yes, completely...without any tool but the other parts of the gun.
I'm not writing about mere field stripping. I mean complete disassembly, excepting only the staked-on front sight, ejector, and plunger tube, and the mallet-driven rear sight.

old codger wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am:
...It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo.

I am still using WW2-vintage magazines in mine that have been in constant use for more than 30 years. I frequently reload damaged cases and, since the cartridge is low-pressure, find that they are both safe and fully functional.
Once again, the author of these comments is speaking or writing from a point of no practical experience.

old codger wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am:
...And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.

I need to know the criteria for making those statements. What makes it unsafe? Where does that "95%" figure come from?
I think that the author is inexperienced and foolish, and is speaking from conjecture rather than facts. Is the author somehow prejudiced against SA semi-autos? For what reason?

old codger wrote on Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:02am:
...In my original complaint, I forgot to mention the issue with slide-stop failures, and the whole internal extractor/external extractor situation.  Either of which would be serious enough to kill any other design’s reputation in the shooting world...

If you use clean magazines, and keep your M1911 clean, there are no "slide-stop failures."
Further, that internal extractor works pretty well, in my lengthy experience. The modern trend to external extractors is more a matter of making the design easier to manufacture, than it is one of reliability or effectiveness.

The rest of the rant is just about as accurate as its first sections that I've just criticized, so I'll just stop here. It's unnecessary to go on, because it's a waste of time to argue with an ignorant fool.
Of course the M1911 isn't perfect. No mechanism is. But that's not a fit excuse for making silly, inflammatory, conjectural, and baldly untrue statements without the underlying real-life experience to back them up.
Further, it is not a fit excuse for calling people who choose to use a particular mechanism offensive names, for instance "fanboys who drank too much John M. Browning Kool-Aid," just because the author thinks that their choices are wrong. That's called the ad hominem argument, and it is normally used when the writer or speaker means only to "stir the pot," rather than to impart really meaningful, useful information.
Such is obviously the case here.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #22 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 10:15am
 
Hey old codger,
I picked up on the "...unsafe for 95% of its users..." comment too.  ANY handgun is unsafe for ANY user who is untrained or unsafe in its carry and use.

I'm guessing the writer is a younger guy who lacks some confidence and wants the "security blanket" of 15+ rounds, or wants a gun like he sees on TV and in the movies (you don't see a lot of 1911's on the screen as often as you used to).

I think he is a lazy gun owner/handler. Almost all his criticism surrounds issues about the 1911 that could be claimed about any gun that is not well maintained, or is using ammo that has not been tried on the range before betting your life on it, or requires diligent discipline in handling and carrying like ANY handgun regardless of model or design.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #23 - Dec 24th, 2010 at 3:37pm
 
I've had a Ultra CDP II for about 2 years and like it.  It's easy to carry, reliable and accurate.  I have to get beyond self defense distances to see the difference of a 5" barrel over the 3" of the Ultra.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #24 - Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:54pm
 
My current CCW carry pistol is the HK45 Compact Tactical.  I like the size of it, and yes it is much bigger than my Ruger LCP .380.  I find it easy to conceal, but for most, I would say, they would think it too large.  I'm not comfortable carrying smaller calibers, although I own a 380, 9mm, and .40 S&W.  Just personal preference.  Good luck with your choice!
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #25 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 12:09pm
 
I have, and carry, different firearms depending on the situation.  I have the Kimber concealed carry unit, the Colt Officers model (both in .45), and a couple of Colt Mustangs.  Practice with both is important.  For daily carry, I find the Colt Officers model to be very comfortable.  Special occasions (warm weather attire) demand a bit more concealability and the .380 comes into play.  I believe that one must be prepared for different situations and that includes clothing and environment.  Along with that, the responsiblity to manage your weaponry - i.e. practice in draw with various clothing types and marksmanship.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #26 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 9:30am
 
I know it is a old thread, but want to address this:

I like a 1911 but it is 100+ year old design that still works very well and is proven; however, I personally have moved on to the Glock 36 45acp and am very happy with it for my EDC.

I have carried 380acp, and still do for BUG, 9x18 and 9mm and all of them seem to pail compared to the 45acp.

I believe that when it comes down to really needing a firearm for defense I will use whatever I might have at the monent on hand.

That said, there is a better chance of it being a 45acp caliber weapon if I EDC one.

Since there is no magic bullet with every time  one shot stopping power, training is the best answer and carry the biggest caliber you can effectively shoot well.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #27 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 10:15am
 
Being a newbie to this forum but a 72 year old, well traveled individual and licensed CWP carrier in So. Carolina, I alternate between a S&W stainless 38 special snubbie and a Bersa Thunder 380 with a No. American Arms 22 mag in my pocket. I especially like the Bersa for it's reliability and accuracy. I find it's recoil very easy to handle and double-tap accuracy is exceptional.
As witnessed by my age, I've got thousands of rounds under the old belt and can put 'em where they count.  I subscribe to the 3-3-3 rule and hope it never comes to the test.
Good luck in your quest....take your time in decision making.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #28 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 9:48pm
 
Southern Gentleman wrote on Oct 31st, 2011 at 10:15am:
Being a newbie to this forum but a 72 year old, well traveled individual and licensed CWP carrier in So. Carolina, I alternate between a S&W stainless 38 special snubbie and a Bersa Thunder 380 with a No. American Arms 22 mag in my pocket. I especially like the Bersa for it's reliability and accuracy. I find it's recoil very easy to handle and double-tap accuracy is exceptional.
As witnessed by my age, I've got thousands of rounds under the old belt and can put 'em where they count.  I subscribe to the 3-3-3 rule and hope it never comes to the test.
Good luck in your quest....take your time in decision making.

Welcome from Central Texas, and I also like the Bersa but carry a Glock 36.
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Re: Best .45 for concealed carry?
Reply #29 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 8:12pm
 
trlhrv wrote on Dec 4th, 2010 at 8:06pm:
Back to your question, I can fondly recommend the Kimber Ultra Carry II. It is light weight with an alloy frame and holds 7rds in the mag. I also suggest the Kimber Pro Cary II. It is a little larger( eight rds) and both can be carried concealed easily. With either you can get four fingers on the grip.

I have an Ultra Carry II which has been an excellent pistol.  The size and weight are similar to my EMP 40, both using the same holster.
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